Hi designideas4me,

Thank you - I'm pleased to hear that you like the SV kitchen, but I'm afraid it was many times more than your preferred budget. I'd suggest finding a local kitchen designer, not a big box store, so you can work with someone creative that can tailor the project design and details to your budget. You can use projects like the SV kitchen and other favorites of yours from Houzz to show them what you like.

I wish you the best with your project!

Steve

designideas4me, if you really want a photo-realistic 3D render I'll happily refer you to the graphic artist I work with. Based on outdoor kitchen renders he's done for me that are comparable in size to your kitchen, I'd figure on spending $1200-1500 for the service.

Otherwise, it sounds like you've figured out some solutions as to how best to mock it up and make sense of what you're seeing. Back in the dark days before 3D programs, I helped builders set up cardboard mockups of kitchen cabinet layouts in empty shells of kitchens. It can be scary when you're at your budget but sometimes you have to trust the professional you're working with and go for it.

Thank you. There is no way i will spend that much to get a rendering. I just find it kind of unrealistic that...............home depot for example wont let you check out the cabinet doors and has no complete display to see even how the cabinets sit on the frame and they give you only a basic line drawing to go by. I am trying to get a clean picture of what to expect from other kitchen designers or companies. When not paying a huge design fee ( I cant afford that) where would you suggest I look for cabinets that I would be able to see the doors in my own house and see the final product before buying? So I know if the cabinets are full overlay and how the doors close.. and how the end result will look. Where do you suggest I should go for modern lower cost cabinets?

I had a custom cabinet shop. When customers asked me how much my cabinets cost, I always told them "More than Home Depot". If they stuck around after that, we'd begin to discuss their kitchen. When it became evident they had the means to afford custom cabinets, I would draw a 3D for them but even then it wasn't the kind you are talking about. It looked like this: If they wanted to buy the prints from me, I would sell them, based on how much work I had put into them. At that point, though, I had usually won their confidence and they purchased the job. If they purchased the job, the cost of the prints were included in the job. If not, the drawing time was billed and at least I had not lost my drawing time.

very nice. So what did they have to do to show you they were serious or had the means? pay?

Hi ! You could always ask a freelance kitchen designer like me to design for you - based in uk - but can happily design and email you fusion 2020 CAD images - but best of all, as working for you, will design with your input and ideas too , all the way - so you get exactly what you want and can buy from where you choose with your own set of plans, perspectives and panoramic's . Most of my past clients managed to save much more than they paid me for designing for them purely by snooping around !
Email me if you like ! one.plan@virgin.net

Hahaha ! That last bit should say shopping around - but snooping is good too !!!! Lol

By the way - I design for trade too - and can just CAD up your own designs ! I don't have a website as when I did I just got too busy ! Will happily answer trade and retail enquiries ! ( blatant free advertising !! - sorry !! )

I was looking at utube and wondering about google sketch up............is that a good program? I guess I am concerned that paying for a design without actual cabinets in mind may not be the best approach because what if I cant find cabinets in my price that fit the specs of the drawing or find sizes that fit such as with ikea that only has specific sizes. If I had 50k for a kitchen than I could see designing from my dreams and vision and having it custom made but the options for me are much more limited. I think my best approach is to find cabinets I like that I can afford and then see how they look in my space with my appliances. what do you think oneplan ?

SketchUp is a great program, and one a lot of us use. But it has a learning curve, and if you're after the photo-real renders you're talking about you need to use additional rendering software that really isn't intuitive at all (I gave up on figuring it out and I pay a graphic artist to do my renders). There's a free version, though, so go ahead and give it a try. All you're out is time.

Hi - well I design with end product in mind - so if its an ikea kitchen - I will use their width, height and depth cabinets in the drawing - in the style you like - otherwise it won't look like what you want ! If you are not sure where you will end up buying from - again with this in mind, using industry standard sizes - to produce drawings to the quality of the ones on my earlier post - you should be able to take the drawings and item list and get quotes very easily ! If you email me the approx size of the area to be designed I can let you know how much it would cost to design for you ! ( if it's just the area shown on one of your previous posts its not going to break the bank! ) the design I posted was £650 ( about $1000) but that's so much bigger than yours I think !!

@designideas4me--First thing I would do is meet with them. I asked them if they had any idea what appliances they were going to use. Depending on what they planned to use, i had an idea of their budget for the cabinets. I asked a lot of design questions and showed pictures in the first meeting so I had some really good insight into what they were looking for. I told them I could do a plan for them. If they decided not to go with us, they could purchase the plan. Otherwise, the plan remained my property. If they brought me measurements I would build a kitchen for them but I wouldn't guarantee that it would fit. If I went out and measured it, I would guarantee that it would fit. There was a charge to go out and measure. They always wanted me to measure. At that point they had invested time and money and I knew they were serious.

Here are some renderings she just sent me... I still feel its maybe too dark a gray based on the pictures and since you cant see the glass doors it just seems like too much of the same thing throughout. How else to get an open bright look and not just 20 cabinets in a row on the wall?

You may be missing information if this is free design. If you are paying for this expect more.

Baywolf... what do you mean by missing information?

Looks pretty realistic. There are no dimensions though.

Should it have dimentions on this drawing? Eagle have you desinged kitchens other than building did you do the design work too? do you see any other options for less cabinets and a more interesting or open feel? Just looks like what I have now and I wanted something different if I do this remodel but dont know what to suggest or is possible given my budget. I like unique.

No, dimensions do not come on this type of drawing. This rendering is a presentation drawing--just for looks .I didn't know if that's what Baywolf was referring to when he said it looks like there may be missing information. The installer would need dimensional drawings though showing not only overall dimensions but also cabinet widths, island placement, dimensions to the center of sink, oven and other appliances, and an elevation showing height to the top of the cabinets,

What you can expect from a cabinet designer often depends on a few things...the skill of the designer, the software they use which is provided by the company they work for, your budget, and the cabinets they offer which is also provided by the company they work for. Some manufacturers offer semi-custom cabinets. They have a specific line but offer changes at a premium. Other manufacturers only offer basic cabinets and that's all you can get from them, so that's all they can draw for you.

Yes I designed both cabinets and kitchens, and built them. If you want unique and if it fits your budget, I would suggest going to a cabinet maker. A cabinet maker can get a variety of woods that aren't offered by an your average cabinet manufacturer. In addition, you can have cabinets built that aren't offered by non-custom manufacturers. You can also go to an independent kitchen designer as the ones above who could give you a more realistic rendering.

But to address the open look you are talking about--First of all, I have to say this does look like a functional design and that is the most important thing. Without having your dimensions and cabinet door design (which tells me a lot about the look you are going for) and your choices in appliances, I would say that the glass doors overhead are costing you more and making giving it a shorter look. Perhaps instead you could put the money into a slide in range with a decorative hood overhead if the budget allowed. Give the hood more space. If your range is 30", give the hood 36". Put a decorative backsplash that goes up to the top of the cabinets. That will give the illusion of height and openness. That will make the cabinets on either side or the pantry less wide but will give you a more open feel. The pantry could be made to accommodate a built in microwave or if there is room or you could have a microwave drawer next to the sink if there is room there or you could put the microwave next to the refrigerator on the counter. You could also have open easy-reach shelving in the left corner or a full length cabinet or normal length cabinet on with a 45 deg angle and glass door that is lit inside to brighten up that corner--also making it look more open. Staying with one color on the top and bottom cabinets will make it feel larger. The more you break it up color-wise, the smaller it will feel. It's trendy right now to mix and match finishes, but forget the trends and go for what makes you happy. Having a drawer base somewhere would be nice also. Perhaps the designer put one beside the sink.

This forum is different of course than if you and I sat down and looked at pictures of kitchens and doors first so that I got a really good idea of your tastes and we talked about your budget for appliances and I knew what the space looked like around the picture shown above. Sometimes it's possible to open walls into other rooms and rearrange space to make things work. Not being able to see other walls and have dimensions makes it more of a challenge to give you more advise.

The colors that you see in renderings are not necessarily accurate. The rendering is essentially to give you an idea of the layout in its upright form. Choices of woods and colors are a separate issue.

Many of the drawings you refer to are schematics. The process I would suggest you follow -assuming you are "remodeling ?" or building new ? Before- you go to the store....
1.As the homeowner, Define the existing space you intend to remodel. (or build) and include the adjacent spaces. By that I mean measure the existing area length x width and heights and put those dimensions on paper in the form of a PLAN VIEW. be sure to include the location of doors, windows, hallway, dining area ?, living area?, outdoors?, and all the existing appliances. (Later on you will find the need to add locations of electrical outlets, switches, ceiling lighting etc.. you get the idea.
2. As the homeowner you can easily do a rough drawing of your current "WALL ELEVATION" As you can see in sample attached, the elevation is a view straight on. with no perspective. This would become is a dimension drawing to a scale. From here you can measure the exact size of your cabinets,
3. Your selected designer /cabinet sales can develop a PERSPECTIVE with the style of doors usually incorporated.
4. It's important to start off with as much knowledge of your existing area so you can discuss changes you desire and what happens when you make those changes. For example; if you were to move the sink- that involves changing the plumbing... you get the idea.
So with your existing accurately measured and defined , now you can explore the changes and options you have available and get an idea of what those options are going to cost.

Hope that helps. ( I've been working with homeowners developing kitchen and bath designs for a "few" (20+ years) and not everyone on this site is trying to sell you their services. Stay with someone local, keep checking and ask friends who they have used. If you tour builders homes, realtor open houses you may find that "good builder" but also does remodeling ???
Excellent post by eagle above.

DesignIdeas4me: Go to a custom cabinet shop. They should be able to make drawings that will include details, such as glass doors, special trim, pull out drawers in lower cabinets, etc. It should be clear enough so that you can visualize what the finished product will be. Some will not release the drawings unless you go with them (so you won't shop them). But, some will. Even Home Depot can give you clearer drawings than what you showed above.

You need dimensions on your drawings so that you will know what type of cabinet or drawer can be installed in each space.

Remember also -- that drawers on lower cabinets are generally more functional than cabinets. For pots and pans, utilize pull-out drawers within the cabinet. Decide where everything goes before you go for a drawing.

You do have to use some imagination to transfer a flat drawing into a 3 dimensional cabinet. The colors are what matters and you can match colors with cabinet door, sample counter, and paint swatches.

Designideas4me, the first thing you have to keep in mind is that Home Depot is in business to sell you cabinets, period. For the most part their service people in the Kitchen department may have very little professional training other than how to use the very basic cabinet design program they have......heck, I worked at a HD for a very brief span and one of the girls there working in the kitchen department had a background of hair dresser and exotic dancer.....not someone I would want designing my kitchen.

The realities are that a photo realistic rendering takes time to come up with....even with a computer generated product and time in the design studio equals money. A good photo realistic rendering can take anywhere from a day to 2 days to create.....maybe longer if the designer actually has to create the components (i.e specific door styles and finishes) you want.

I understand what you're saying, but the realities are very few studios or dealers can afford to spend that kind of time on a gamble that you will go with them. What you're getting are schematic drawings because that's the phase you're in.....the schematic or preliminary phase. Once you decide on specific components and configuration, you can get development drawings where the look and fine details are more worked out. This is usually where you get a rendered perspective, but that is usually an extra cost........usually simple rendered elevations are adequate enough for most clients..........very rarely do I need to do a fully rendered photo realistic rendering for a client. Because quite frankly many just don't want to pay that extra fee........that's exactly how I got into this profession. I was hired many years ago by a large international Architectural / Engineering / Construction firm to do Architectural renderings and illustrations by hand.....something we did back before the computer's were brought into the office. A large full color rendering back then might cost the client $5-8k for a large commercial project and take a week to 2 weeks to complete. Now people not familiar with the process have a tendency to think that the perspectives can just be popped out of the computer in minutes......

The sad truth is designideas is that if you want a photo realistic rendered perspective of your kitchen design to make your decision it's going to take a day or two to get your information and input into the application to produce the finished the product. Even then it's going to take quite a bit of tweaking to get it just right (i.e. light forecasting, color balance, etc., etc.) and that someone is going to want to get paid for their effort.......the designer has overhead even if they do the work themselves, they've got bills to pay and food to put on their family table and two days of time spent on your project is two days time they can't spend on someone's else who is paying.

I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but it's the realities of our profession. Time is a valuable commodity and uncompensated time is lost money for us.......I dare say if us designers broke our fees down to an hourly wage, all the time you don't see us working, we could make just about what we would get paid at McDonald's ...........good design just doesn't pop up in a flash, It takes many hours of "what if" or "what would this look like" and quite often a pile of wadded up bum wad tissue around our chair before it starts clicking..........can I get a designer amen?

Well put ! It's a shame we can't give the benefit of our years and years of experience for free - but we all have to make a living ! I hope you find what you are looking for ! Kindest regards from us in the UK !!

S. Thomas Kutch ...Amen.

Tarey.........thank you and yes I understand most of what you said. For example I just spoke to one custom shop that does european cabinets and he asked for similiar pictures. I will have to try to draw those or maybe just send him that pic from home depot of the sketch and my dimentions. I suppose if I spend 15k or just cabinets and install I have to love it and be motivated. So for me that means unique and modern. What I see around here is not that at all. Most have oak and the newer homes have maple still builder grade and transitional style. But the man I just spoke to told me more about the construction of ikea and his line which I really like the look or. They are particle board inside with laquar outside or veneer. This is how all european cabinets are made he said. I cant imagine them not being good quality for the price and look they achieve, Why are so many people negative on using particle board.

Here is their product line. They are local it turns out.

https://www.houzz.com/photos/leicht-decor-phbr0lbl-bl~l_82606

Plywood is usually preferred by manufactures that want to offer a higher end cabinet and still offer them at an affordable price. Plywood is much more durable than particleboard and also much more water resistant. Instead of being made from wood chips, it consists of wood sheets that are compressed together and then veneered. Plywood is also much easier to drill and screw into making the assemble much easier.
http://www.kitchenresourcedirect.com/particleboard-vs-plywood-cabinets

pros & cons ; http://www.ikeafans.com/home/particleboard-plywood-kitchen-cabinets/

Having experienced the "cons" of particle board, I would be cautious. (as I sit in front of my particle board desk with rippled surface caused by water damage. ) If you have not experienced build it yourself assembly furniture , ask a few friends.

Back to basics- please tell us what is there now ? It's hard to help when we do not know what you have and where you want to go ?

When particle board gets wet, it tends to disolve and turn to mush. Plywood may lose some shape, but it won't dissolve.

You need to decide what goes where in your kitchen. Keep what you like about your current layout; change what you don't like. You have to have a good idea of your needs before you work with somebody else on cabinets.

designideas4me--You were misled. That is not how all European (frameless) cabinets are made. I used to make frameless cabinets with plywood. And they weren't all oak, maple or cherry and they didn't have builder grade doors. A flat lacquer door goes well with a European style. A custom shop is more versatile. If you look around you may find a manufactured brand name that will give you plywood sides as well. Particle board is definitely an inferior product and costs less to the manufacturer.

I've owned a design build firm that specializes in kitchen and bath remodeling for the last 23 years and the finest construction / fit and finish is Rutt Handcrafted Cabinetry. The Regency line is their less expensive alturnative with the same finishes and still provides tremendous customization. I can specify any of the 1600 Ben. Moore Classic colors without an upcharge. I have a terrific display of the Modern Crafstman door style in my showroom that is a new take on the standard Craftsman door. If you want to fall in love with construction and finish find a Rutt Handcrafted Cabinetry showroom near you. I should warn you that your budget will go up but you will immediatley see the difference. You probably won't remodel your kitchen again so it's worth doing it right. Look at their web site too. Good luck.

Baywolf............. I looked at the website and it seems very traditional for me.

carrington................ I have ikea furniture which is particleboard so I understand. Its not perfect but has held up well for 10 years. The macys furniture i bought recently with plywood and veneers is much more scratched and may be constructed better by scratches easily.

Tarey................I only want to keep my refrig and micro that are new. I want good quality lower cost( not more than 15k) modern style cabinets. Thats my objective. If I have them built from scratch is that the best option for me? I dont know if i can get what i need size wise in that price. Do local cabinet makers build frameless modern slab doors and i assume its expensive to finish with veneer or paint or laquar. I dont have a huge budget. I am also a bit scared to pay to have someone build something without seeing how it looks first.

You are going to have to work with (pay) a designer or a design/builder to help "draw up" what it is that you think you need in order to make a decision. They make it look so easy on those DIY kitchen shows, don't they? If you are fine with particle board cabinets, then Ikea would be a good bet for design help and affordable cabinets, etc. Remember, you get what you pay for...

Well I think ikea is good quality despite what many on this forum are saying. It may not be the best but not everyone can afford 50k for a kitchen. Plus they do have a good warrentee and are close to me. I was open to and trying to compair with similiar lines of cabinets and have emailed some specs to designers at custom cabinet companies so I guess I will see what they can offer in terms of price and quality . No one has asked me to pay for the design yet. I know that ikea offers a price for a set amount of time and one design and a few modifications and then they do the rest for you plus of course you pay 100 per cabinet I believe it is to have assembled and installed. If you would like to suggest any other company that offers similiar looking cabinets that are made better than I am definately open to that. I am waiting to get some estimates from Leicht and timeless and cabico................. 3 companies that are shown on houzz and recomended by some people on this board. Its a hard process.. yes. its not easy................How do I get on one of those DIY kitchen shows on hgtv so they can do it all for me???

One more thought for you designideas. You may have already done this and just not written a lot about it. Give some thought to how you want your kitchen to function - not just how you want it to look.

There are a lot of good designers out there - and some really great ones. There are also ones who don't have a great deal of creativity. I seem to have found a few of those. In my mind, I have some really specific things I want in my kitchen. The way it looks comes secondary for me. Form follows function ;-)

You're talented and artistic. Plus you've got a fabulous layout to work with. Sketch some things out. Look at pics. Do you like the look of floating shelves vs wall to wall upper cabinets? How easy/hard is it for you to get to the things you use on a daily basis now. Would drawers/shelves make that easier? Is the line drawing layout you've posted the kitchen layout of your dreams? Is there any way you can think of that your existing layout could be used to better advantage?

Don't depend on someone else to tell you what you like. Yes, you still need a designer - but I think you need to start first with at least an idea of what you want functionally.

Really .. you think my layout is fabulous? I find it kind of limiting. In fact none of the designers who have come to my house or looked at my pics and measurements could suggest anything differnt than what is there now for the layout. As far as my microwave I use it like 20 times a day so I like it in a convenient spot. I have asked several of the designers to include open shelving in the design to keep the cost down but none have. I have great difficulty bending and am in lots of pain most of the time so I told them to put in more draws or pull outs inside the lower cabinets. That line drawing is no way the kitchen of my dreams..that kitchen would probably not fit in this house but it would look like any of the kitchens in my ideabook as long as it was modern and open and light and had nice counters.. marble enclosing the island. High end stainless appliances..etc..but I cant afford all that so lets forget the kitchen of my dreams and just try not to make it a nightmare like my current one..lol.

The only thing I can think of is to move down the plumming and put more counter top near the refreig on that side of the island before the sink. I feel that area is cramped and limited for prep. I really feel that for a medium to large kitchen which the lowes designer said i have that I have very little counter space..its 45 sq feet but I dont like to use the area behind the sink and dishwasher... its the overhang and its facing the den. I dont really use the portion to the right of the stove its maybe 24 or 36 inches and I keep the phone there. I dont like the layout at all. So yeah what would you do? How much is it to move the water pipe or gas? As it is I dont even have 220 electric in there for a wall oven.

hahaha! I ripped the kitchen out of my house 18 months ago so I could move in. Experienced same problems with so called kitchen 'designers' here in Australia. I worked, re-worked & re-worked my floor plan and 6 months later came up with the design that works with the space. The 'designers' just gave me the same plan that was here before & it drove me crazy! I had my cabinets made by a local cabinet maker out of HMR, assembled them myself and put them in place. Then I had the doors made by the same cabinetmaker, also out of HMR, had a local carpenter put a profile on the doors with a router, went to a guy I found online who paints cars and asked him if he'd paint the doors with 2-pak. He did and the doors are amazing! I would LOVE to have had the money to pay $1500 for a high end designer & then $30k for the kitchen but it's just not going to happen. If you are prepared to plan everything, write down all the things you would like in specific places and spend hours and hours looking at images online you can have a gorgeous kitchen that functions perfectly for half the money. I won't have the gorgeous bench tops for a while but the rest is perfect.

Has it been stressful? Yes.... but with such a small budget there are not too many options. To be honest.... I am glad it's taken this long. I understand kitchens so much better now and will end up with exactly what I wanted visually with a lot more functionality due to the thinking time I've had :)

Good luck with your kitchen!

Oh... BTW.... my friends all think I'm a crazy lady but I'm cool with that :)

designs4me--that is exactly the sort of things that you need to tell a designer and if you have been telling them that and they are not listening then shame on them. I would make a list of the specific things such as you just mentioned and each time they handed you a drawing that didn't encompass what you were asking for, tell them they did not listen to you and you will not pay for another plan to correct what they should have done in the first place. UNLESS, they explain that is all they CAN offer you. Remember that cabinets come in width increments of 3". They have to work within that. Make this list and put everything on it. Keep a copy and give them a copy.

please take a moment and some graph paper a DRAW your floor plan with dimensions. use the grid so each is equal to 6". We can not tell what you have existing vs what you asked for. You asked for eurostyle but now you say you asked for open shelves ? now you add more restrictions with the REF. and microwave must stay ? Eagle is right- make a list- after you have made your own drawing.
The island shown in their drawing appears narrow ? Is there a wall there ? What rooms, doorways are existing adjacent ?

Ok I will do this and then scan it but it may take me some time. I just spent 4 hours with a home depot refacing sales woman who was sooooooooooooooo smart and we taked about everything and I made a new friend. However I dont know if I will choose that option. For one thing its 9,000. Too much I feel to keep existing cabinet boxes. She says the boxes are good since they are solid oak and have face frame but still I have that melemine and mdf shelves inside. She cant do a full overlay but pretty close to that on all but one cabinet. we discussed so much about cabinet construction and I learned a lot. too much. I have a headache but one thing she said was that painting cabinets yourself or with a painter brings down the value of the house because it ultimately chips and peels. She said the doors that came with the house from the manufacturer have more value due to the process by whicg they are finished. Interesting since so many people on here are painting their doors to remodel.

Sounds like your new friend has helped with some good advice. I think you are discussing Melamine which is applied with a heat and vacuum process. The one problem with that surface is the edges where they can de-laminate or separate at a sharp edge or corner. You may find contrary to your discussion point- paint and glaze surfaces are premiums and very much in demand on the higher end cabinets
( " As cabinet color trends shift from orange-, red- or yellow-toned browns to a more versatile brown, new glazes and finishes from Diamond Cabinets yield a softer palette. Among the new glazes is Grey Stone Glaze, available on three distinct white-tone paints - Pearl, Dover and Coconut. " ) link: http://www.forresidentialpros.com/product/10712845/diamond-cabinetry-grey-stone-glaze-kitchen-cabinets
Also,
Here's a link to Kit & Bath and Residential Pro magazine where they offer a Product info directory. There are several suppliers offering pull out drawers as conversion kits to fit existing base cabinets which may be worth investigating as part of your solution.
Poggenpohl has introduced a new collection of drawer and pull-out designs. Featuring an integrated LED lighting system, the collection can be retrofit to virtually any kitchen. The 8 mm aluminum drawer sides are currently the thinnest on the market, according to the company. New drawer inserts are available in walnut or maple wood.
http://www.forresidentialpros.com/product/10224273/poggenpohl-new-drawers-pull-outs

Tarey, that Poggenpohl article was great. Thank you! Pure kitchen porn...but great ;-)

After looking at your new drawing -- here is what you should do. Put the fridge where the pantry is pictured. Put the pantry where the fridge is pictured. It looks like you might have room for a wall oven AND install a wall microwave next to the pantry. Solve your bending issues. Use a cooktop in place of freestanding stove. Include a decorative backsplash behind the cooktop and a decorative hood. Then, you have cabinets below to store your pots and pans. Include a rounded overhang off the island for stools. Then, research cabinet makers in your area. Look at model homes -- ask who did the cabinets. Talk to builders, ask who they use. Make calls and get appointments to look at custom-build shops and their products. Look in magazines and cut out pictures of what you like -- put them in a binder with your drawings. Decide the top 3 choices; armed with your binder, have them price it out for you, based on your preferences. Price the most, the best, the extreme first -- then if you have to, you can pull back. By the end of the process you should have a new kitchen.

Tarrey .. I was not refering to melamine. As I sat with the rep from home depot at my house and she showed me some doors, several of which were martha stewart and other brands,that look painted. These doors actually have a heat applied laminate which she said most people dont know about. They think these doors are wood or mdf and painted. She told me that they are thermofoilwhich is also called laminate or rtf. She said that many people dont understand the process. Anyway she was very knowledgable and we spoke for 4 hours about our kids and her career and all kinda of stuff. This company she works for , which is now owned by home depot , is called u.s. home systems.. She said they were recently bought bu Home Depot as the installer for all the remodels on refacing and new cabinets. She told me that many people have had problems with contractors and other professionals in the industry and due to that these has been a huge increase in law suits in past years. She was making her case for (but still I believe its true) a person choosing home depot over using companies that are not a total garentee. By this I mean that home depot does not ask for money up front and you dont pay til the job is complete, which is a great selling point. As is the case with many other design firms or showrooms or contractors , you pay ten percent or more up front and even them many ask for more money to complete the job as it goes along. So we spoke about using the website cslb.org and checking out anyone who I may hire to be sure they are licenced and insured. Her estimate for my kitchen was about 9,000 which seems too high for me and doesnt seem worth while if I can get a new kitchen for 10k. But here the thing. Getting back to the less knowledgable people I encountered in the store such as the kitchen designer who did those renderings above. I explained to the woman at my house that the estimate was for 10,100 for a new kitchen using the martha stewart style and she said that until I have the actual measure done by Home depot and it goes to the next level of estimate that this basic instillation price is not correct. She explained that at that time they will need to add on for any electrical work and demo and drywall patching and pluming work and permits and the price can double. I was shocked by this. I can get my own people ..handiman or whoever to do this stuff for much less but I need to see an itemized list of the charges first. So she is going to try to expidite having someone sent to do the measure and get me that estimate. I dont think I will be doing the refacing because..even though she said my cabinet walls are solid oak and good quality and that I can adapt the inside to include soft close and replace the melimine with plywood shelves and do pull outs and get new doors with veneer applied by heat and glue to cover the face frame..I personally would rather just get all new cabinets for 9,000 or even more if thats what it takes. She said many people do like ikea but some see it as a temporary solution and the only issues she has heard about are problems with getting screws and parts if things break and the main issue is in the metal draws as they are not wood. What I need to get at this point for my own ability to make an informed comparison and decision are some very detailed complete estimates from companies I am considering. I thought the estimates I had from 2 places was correct but now I am wondering really what the bottom line is because of what she mentioned. I have contected a few people online and am waiting for those estimates. I am still leaning toward ikea but there is one other company I really love the look of but for me price is a big issue. I dont mind assembling the cabinets ..my son said he can do that. It would save 1000s. And if I can find a qualifies installer at a good price that would help a lot. I am getting some estimates this week on moving down the pipe for the water because the space between the refrig and island is too small for us. Its ok i mean, at 36 inches but not ideal and since I will be spending a lot of my money I prefer to have a better set up. We spoke about so much I wish I recorded it but off the top of my head these are some points I remembered. Its a learning process for sure. So by 9pm after 4 hours she decided to make her way home back to Laguna where she lives and I packed her a little bag of snacks and sent her on her way.....lol. Nice to meet such a talented smart woman in field after dealing with the one in the store who definately needs more training.

Oh another thing I found interesting was that she said that painting the cabinets at home by yourself or even having a professional do it actually decreases the value of the house. She said cabinets that are manufacturer made and completed with the several step finishing precess... 7-15 steps involved in this process...are more value and better quality than cabinets that have been painted. Because paint will chip and peal over time compaired to doors that are factory made. So basically even if you update your kitchen with a paint job it decreases the homes value compaired to keep the ugly original honey oak that came with the house. She was refering to newer homes I believe and not old houses where anything would improve the look or value of very out of date cabinets. Either way I dint know if I agree with this line of thinking . I suppose a realtor could answer that question.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-07/home-depot-to-buy-u-s-home-systems-for-93-8-million.html

Interesting info for those who care to read.

Aussie...................... what is hmr? I love that you took the doors to a car paint shop. what a great idea...what did they charge? Do you have pictures? what is 2-pak? I love how you did the kitchen your way and found people to do the specific work needed. You sound a lot like me. I know I can get someone to do the demo for a few 100 not 1000s or whatever the quotes I will find people to do it for less who are qualified. I have the time. I just need to figure out more of how to get it done. What did you have your boxes made from and did you install them yourself too?

Thank you carrington... I will have to figure out how to contact these builders. I do think thats a great idea. Since all the top builders are around me here and putting in new homes there must be a way to get a hold of someone who can help. My last experience with the man who worked doing just that did not end well. He got my hopes set on new cabinets from his company and them never gave me a design or contract and as I continued over 10 weeks totry to get anything done all he said was that theywere too busy with new homes and employee orders come last. I dont know if he was just full of it or what. So when I did get referrred to a local distributor from the builder the price quote was double and they said his estimate was not possible...he said he would install the cabinets at 25 bux a box. Plus the cabinets alone were much more than he said. I am used to men lying to me but it really pisses me off. This is part of the challenge of being a single woman and trying to get this all done myself.

HMR is Highly Moisture Resistant MDF. The only place I could get wooden/timber doors is Ikea (Tidaholm) but not in the sizes I needed. Every DIY store had something I could use but not one had everything in the right size.

I paid $380 for the paint for the doors and got the same color the new Landcruiser Sahara is painted in over here. It's a pearl white (very nice)... My neighbor is a mechanic and spray painter so he did the job for me over 3 weeks and I paid him in beer :)

2-pak is a paint that sprays on and dries as hard as the paint on your car. Some guys use 2-pak in tins to touch up cars or paint motorcycles etc... In Australia 2-pak doors are high end. Only thing more expensive is solid timber, mahogany etc... google 2 pak kitchen doors and you'll see them.

Another tip.... I found out who imports the Blum range here. Called them, registered for a trade account and am buying all Blum fittings as I can afford to. The difference in price for the panty was $400! - just on the drawers!

I won't take photos yet as I pulled up the slate flooring a month ago and just have a really terrible thinset floor now which needs to be grinded back :( The slate was gorgeous but so uneven it broke the wheels off my refrigerator so it had to go.

Obviously I wish I had of done the floor BEFORE I installed the cabinets! We live and learn :)

If you'd like me to write a list of what I did to get to where I am let me know. I'll do that and post it here. It is a RIDICULOUS amount of research and time but as I've always said... some people have a lot of time, some have a lot of money, very few have them in equal amounts. If you have more time than money this is the way to go :)

lol................ I like that saying. yes I have more time than money. Would love to hear anything you want to share about your experience. Every day I feel that way. I say to myself oh just buy something but I need to compair and feel satisfied as to what I am getting and where and how.

I was painting a table today and wondering if its worth the time or I should just buy a new one.Part of me things it may not turn out good and it will look cheap and part of me says if I could learn to do it well it might look really good. But then I think that nothing looks as good as a table that is bought and made professionally. I guess I dont have much confidence in my ability.

I found a place that takes the ikea boxes and makes unique doors in any material or style to fit the box. Its interesting the things people do.

If I wanted to get a great paint finish or a laquar finish on this table I have do I need to find someone who applies car spray paint or just a painter who sprays 2-pak. I want to try to do it myself but I guess I am just worried I will have a mess to clean up and it wont come out well. These men charge so much for something I think doesnt take that long to do and isnt that hard.

I get so many conflicting ideas on how to use the sprayer. I bought one and was ready to do it but when you ask advice from a painter they try to get you to beleive it takes a $500 sprayer and 10 yrs experience to do it right. I just wish people expected a fair price for what they offer and I would have no problem paying.

Like having to pay 120 for a minor electrical repair that I am sure I could even do if I was able to get in the attic and put some wires in a junction box. This is why for me I need people who work for what I consider a fair price.

BTW no kitchen designers have asked me to pay to have them do a design except on here. Thw ones I am contacting who work for or own showrooms are doing it free initially.

designs4me--the ones who do it for 'free' get paid for their design work through the cost of the cabinets. The ones that do it independently and don't sell cabinets are the ones that charge for it. At least that's generally the way it works.

aussierobyn--You can get doors through a cabinet maker. He will either make them for you exact to size or he can buy them through a company that sells to the trade only called Walzcraft who will also make them exact to size.
www.waltzcraft.com if you want to take a look. They'll even drill the cup hole for Blum hinges for you.

Hi eagledzines

I used the same cabinetmaker to cut my doors to size and round off the edges, however, my budget didn't allow to have the profile cut in at the same time so I took them to a local handyman that I know has a router & he did the profile cutting for me using his router.

The doors came with the cup holes for the hardware I wanted which was great and the HMR board they used has a white layer on the inside to stop any warping when painting the outside of the door (if using water based paint).

Great doors on that site BTW :)

aussierobyn..." some people have a lot of time, some have a lot of money, very few have them in equal amounts. If you have more time than money this is the way to go :)"

LOVE IT ! that's a comment I can relate with. Go ahead and take pictures during remodel befores and during. you will want them later ( and we won't make fun of your floor") :)